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	<title>Comments for The Collie Farm Blog</title>
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	<link>http://colliefarm.wordpress.com</link>
	<description>Daily chronicles of our farm and collies (Border Collies, that is)</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 24 May 2013 03:31:34 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on Culling Decisions by Michelle Canfield</title>
		<link>http://colliefarm.wordpress.com/2013/05/19/culling-decisions/#comment-6290</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Michelle Canfield]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 May 2013 03:31:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://colliefarm.wordpress.com/?p=4730#comment-6290</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[harrietnw- indeed, I think small-scale farming can be a great retirement-era income, especially suited for people who have paid off their mortgage- no commute to work and flexible hours, and a scale-able enterprise. I do sometimes reflect that some of the harder work, like lifting heavy things, may not be as do-able in my golden years. But there are probably enough ways to mechanize that kind of thing, to reduce the physical burden; and to hire some outside help for occasional chores which require more effort. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>harrietnw- indeed, I think small-scale farming can be a great retirement-era income, especially suited for people who have paid off their mortgage- no commute to work and flexible hours, and a scale-able enterprise. I do sometimes reflect that some of the harder work, like lifting heavy things, may not be as do-able in my golden years. But there are probably enough ways to mechanize that kind of thing, to reduce the physical burden; and to hire some outside help for occasional chores which require more effort. </p>
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		<title>Comment on Culling Decisions by harrietnw</title>
		<link>http://colliefarm.wordpress.com/2013/05/19/culling-decisions/#comment-6289</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[harrietnw]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 May 2013 01:25:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://colliefarm.wordpress.com/?p=4730#comment-6289</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[When I read blanket advice to cull any &quot;under-performing&quot; animal, I think about the Ark of Taste and other efforts to restore heritage stock.  Or I think of the butter at French Laundry restaurant, flown in from the opposite side of the country.  Standardizing livestock, especially strictly for production and system-flow, often costs us something.

I think your approach makes a lot more sense.  At every stage in our farming history, we have done things that seemed cutting-edge genius at the time and now look foolish through the lens of history.  Sometimes those underperformers have something great to offer, like natural resistance to diseases that only later develop commercial importance.  And sometimes, we just don&#039;t do our due diligence as an industry before making sweeping changes, like dry-lotting cattle without testing resulting nutrient values.

I don&#039;t think thoughtful development of a flock or herd transforms a producer into a researcher.  Small producers can&#039;t compete directly with the big systematized guys.  We have to do things better, or else we&#039;ll have to compete with the big guys without the benefits of scale.

Re: Income replacement, I tend to think about retirement more than most. At some point, continuing a high income is unlikely at best.  Savings and social security become the income replacement, and they don&#039;t return much.  Farm income looks paltry compared to high-skill wage, but it&#039;s a different story compared to retirement income sources.  It&#039;s a form of diversification.  If you look at the early returns on most rental properties, they don&#039;t look like much, either, but slow growth has its advantages.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When I read blanket advice to cull any &#8220;under-performing&#8221; animal, I think about the Ark of Taste and other efforts to restore heritage stock.  Or I think of the butter at French Laundry restaurant, flown in from the opposite side of the country.  Standardizing livestock, especially strictly for production and system-flow, often costs us something.</p>
<p>I think your approach makes a lot more sense.  At every stage in our farming history, we have done things that seemed cutting-edge genius at the time and now look foolish through the lens of history.  Sometimes those underperformers have something great to offer, like natural resistance to diseases that only later develop commercial importance.  And sometimes, we just don&#8217;t do our due diligence as an industry before making sweeping changes, like dry-lotting cattle without testing resulting nutrient values.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think thoughtful development of a flock or herd transforms a producer into a researcher.  Small producers can&#8217;t compete directly with the big systematized guys.  We have to do things better, or else we&#8217;ll have to compete with the big guys without the benefits of scale.</p>
<p>Re: Income replacement, I tend to think about retirement more than most. At some point, continuing a high income is unlikely at best.  Savings and social security become the income replacement, and they don&#8217;t return much.  Farm income looks paltry compared to high-skill wage, but it&#8217;s a different story compared to retirement income sources.  It&#8217;s a form of diversification.  If you look at the early returns on most rental properties, they don&#8217;t look like much, either, but slow growth has its advantages.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Culling Decisions by bruce king</title>
		<link>http://colliefarm.wordpress.com/2013/05/19/culling-decisions/#comment-6283</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[bruce king]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 May 2013 02:07:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://colliefarm.wordpress.com/?p=4730#comment-6283</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[How much of a premium do you get for seed stock vs a meat lamb?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How much of a premium do you get for seed stock vs a meat lamb?</p>
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		<title>Comment on About Me by Michelle Canfield</title>
		<link>http://colliefarm.wordpress.com/about/#comment-6276</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Michelle Canfield]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 May 2013 04:31:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-6276</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks Stephanie! I love to write!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Stephanie! I love to write!</p>
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		<title>Comment on About Me by Stephanie</title>
		<link>http://colliefarm.wordpress.com/about/#comment-6275</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Stephanie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 May 2013 04:24:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-6275</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks so much!  I have the first one :), but i will keep my eyes open for the others, and check out the Sheep 101/201 websites- i&#039;ve bookmarked your blog as well - i love your writing style :)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks so much!  I have the first one <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> , but i will keep my eyes open for the others, and check out the Sheep 101/201 websites- i&#8217;ve bookmarked your blog as well &#8211; i love your writing style <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>Comment on Culling Decisions by Michelle Canfield</title>
		<link>http://colliefarm.wordpress.com/2013/05/19/culling-decisions/#comment-6274</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Michelle Canfield]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 May 2013 03:47:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://colliefarm.wordpress.com/?p=4730#comment-6274</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Bruce, in the blog post you cite, you may notice that I never said this is a reflection of how much *I* make, but simply how much a typical person may expect to make, using a basic example. At this point, the majority of my sheep are sold as registered seed stock, so they are more profitable than in the example. The post was meant both to be helpful to beginning farmers, as well as provide some education to buyers, who might have the gall to complain about the price of lamb. 

I keep pretty careful accounting records, and even with a small flock and with me often prioritizing time over cost and scope in the triple constraint, they still offer a supplemental income. And that&#039;s even with still being in an investment and growth stage, where the majority of my flock isn&#039;t yet in full swing. 

I&#039;m not a big &quot;quit my job and borrow a bunch of money to start a business&quot; kind of person, so I&#039;ll just keep growing it gradually. I will have the option at some point to make it a full time endeavor if I wish, though certainly I don&#039;t expect it to ever match my wages earned in engineering. I know at that time, I could switch some control points in my budget, like cut my own hay, once I had the time, which would make the venture much more profitable that it can be with me working full time. 

You&#039;re right, I&#039;d need a lot more sheep to pay for the barn, but the barn has other uses, we didn&#039;t build it primarily for sheep. And the depreciation on buildings is long. The investment in fencing and other equipment is fairly minimal, the payoff on that stuff is only a few years. I do track it all, down to the penny, have a business plan and a ten-year forecast, and file a schedule F. So at least in the eyes of the IRS, I am indeed a commercial endeavor.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bruce, in the blog post you cite, you may notice that I never said this is a reflection of how much *I* make, but simply how much a typical person may expect to make, using a basic example. At this point, the majority of my sheep are sold as registered seed stock, so they are more profitable than in the example. The post was meant both to be helpful to beginning farmers, as well as provide some education to buyers, who might have the gall to complain about the price of lamb. </p>
<p>I keep pretty careful accounting records, and even with a small flock and with me often prioritizing time over cost and scope in the triple constraint, they still offer a supplemental income. And that&#8217;s even with still being in an investment and growth stage, where the majority of my flock isn&#8217;t yet in full swing. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m not a big &#8220;quit my job and borrow a bunch of money to start a business&#8221; kind of person, so I&#8217;ll just keep growing it gradually. I will have the option at some point to make it a full time endeavor if I wish, though certainly I don&#8217;t expect it to ever match my wages earned in engineering. I know at that time, I could switch some control points in my budget, like cut my own hay, once I had the time, which would make the venture much more profitable that it can be with me working full time. </p>
<p>You&#8217;re right, I&#8217;d need a lot more sheep to pay for the barn, but the barn has other uses, we didn&#8217;t build it primarily for sheep. And the depreciation on buildings is long. The investment in fencing and other equipment is fairly minimal, the payoff on that stuff is only a few years. I do track it all, down to the penny, have a business plan and a ten-year forecast, and file a schedule F. So at least in the eyes of the IRS, I am indeed a commercial endeavor.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Calculating Copper in a Sheep&#8217;s Diet by Michelle Canfield</title>
		<link>http://colliefarm.wordpress.com/2009/12/08/calculating-copper-in-a-sheeps-diet/#comment-6273</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Michelle Canfield]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 May 2013 02:50:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://colliefarm.wordpress.com/2009/12/08/calculating-copper-in-a-sheeps-diet/#comment-6273</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Shivani, thanks for your comments. I wrote this post over 3 years ago. I do actually feed my sheep free choice loose minerals, as I don&#039;t feed mixed feed, they are just on grass. But, it would be hard for me to offer each mineral free choice separately. I now supplement with quite a few different elements, and to keep them in a container which stays dry but is easily moved ever 2 days would be hard. So, I calculate the mix and blend it myself, using two different brands, plus adding dolomite, sulfur and zinc to get the correct balance I think I need here. 

I do now submit liver samples to a lab at least yearly, and that has been very enlightening- the results were not at all what I expected based on the tests of my soil and forage. It goes to show that minerals binding with each other is a very complex equation indeed. Since that time, I&#039;ve adjusted my mineral mix every year, and I feel I&#039;m getting closer and closer to optimal, and I feel I&#039;m seeing the benefits in hoof health, which was my primary goal. But it&#039;s a long experiment. I&#039;m still feeding a lot of copper, but had backed it down from some higher levels I was feeding previously, and last year was the first time some of my lab results came back too low in copper. So, it&#039;s proof that you can&#039;t just go by general recommendations; that for whatever various factors, my sheep need more copper than is typical for most, and every farm and sheep breed combination is unique.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shivani, thanks for your comments. I wrote this post over 3 years ago. I do actually feed my sheep free choice loose minerals, as I don&#8217;t feed mixed feed, they are just on grass. But, it would be hard for me to offer each mineral free choice separately. I now supplement with quite a few different elements, and to keep them in a container which stays dry but is easily moved ever 2 days would be hard. So, I calculate the mix and blend it myself, using two different brands, plus adding dolomite, sulfur and zinc to get the correct balance I think I need here. </p>
<p>I do now submit liver samples to a lab at least yearly, and that has been very enlightening- the results were not at all what I expected based on the tests of my soil and forage. It goes to show that minerals binding with each other is a very complex equation indeed. Since that time, I&#8217;ve adjusted my mineral mix every year, and I feel I&#8217;m getting closer and closer to optimal, and I feel I&#8217;m seeing the benefits in hoof health, which was my primary goal. But it&#8217;s a long experiment. I&#8217;m still feeding a lot of copper, but had backed it down from some higher levels I was feeding previously, and last year was the first time some of my lab results came back too low in copper. So, it&#8217;s proof that you can&#8217;t just go by general recommendations; that for whatever various factors, my sheep need more copper than is typical for most, and every farm and sheep breed combination is unique.</p>
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		<title>Comment on About Me by Michelle Canfield</title>
		<link>http://colliefarm.wordpress.com/about/#comment-6272</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Michelle Canfield]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 May 2013 02:38:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-6272</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Stephanie, I think the best book out there is Raising Sheep the Modern Way by Paula Simmons. I have several other books, but none of them have anything that&#039;s missing from Paula&#039;s book! I also like Pat Coleby&#039;s book Natural Sheep Care, though the title doesn&#039;t really reflect what it&#039;s about: the entire book is on mineral supplementation. But it&#039;s a great reference to have on health problems which can be caused or influenced by mineral imbalances. 

The Veterinary Handbook for Sheep Farmers is good to have too. Lately I&#039;ve been referencing the online version of Sheep &amp; Goat Medicine by Pugh- I intend to buy it, as it seems like an even better reference. And, lastly, the American Sheep Industry Association has a great reference called the Sheep Production Handbook. The last 3 are expensive books, but I find that since vets know less and less about sheep, and fewer vets are available to do farm calls, we really need to know a lot ourselves and have good reference materials on hand to look things up. 

And then, of course, there is always the Internet! Susan Schoenian has written an amazing amount on her Sheep 101 and 201 series websites. Those are always a very reliable reference.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stephanie, I think the best book out there is Raising Sheep the Modern Way by Paula Simmons. I have several other books, but none of them have anything that&#8217;s missing from Paula&#8217;s book! I also like Pat Coleby&#8217;s book Natural Sheep Care, though the title doesn&#8217;t really reflect what it&#8217;s about: the entire book is on mineral supplementation. But it&#8217;s a great reference to have on health problems which can be caused or influenced by mineral imbalances. </p>
<p>The Veterinary Handbook for Sheep Farmers is good to have too. Lately I&#8217;ve been referencing the online version of Sheep &amp; Goat Medicine by Pugh- I intend to buy it, as it seems like an even better reference. And, lastly, the American Sheep Industry Association has a great reference called the Sheep Production Handbook. The last 3 are expensive books, but I find that since vets know less and less about sheep, and fewer vets are available to do farm calls, we really need to know a lot ourselves and have good reference materials on hand to look things up. </p>
<p>And then, of course, there is always the Internet! Susan Schoenian has written an amazing amount on her Sheep 101 and 201 series websites. Those are always a very reliable reference.</p>
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		<title>Comment on About Me by Stephanie</title>
		<link>http://colliefarm.wordpress.com/about/#comment-6271</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Stephanie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 May 2013 01:52:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-6271</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[We just bought a farm and got two little bottle sheep - i&#039;d love to see a reading list - you seem to have a lot of neat remedies, and i can&#039;t find enough to read on sheep :).  Chickens, there&#039;s a ton!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We just bought a farm and got two little bottle sheep &#8211; i&#8217;d love to see a reading list &#8211; you seem to have a lot of neat remedies, and i can&#8217;t find enough to read on sheep <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> .  Chickens, there&#8217;s a ton!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Calculating Copper in a Sheep&#8217;s Diet by Shivani</title>
		<link>http://colliefarm.wordpress.com/2009/12/08/calculating-copper-in-a-sheeps-diet/#comment-6270</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Shivani]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 May 2013 17:55:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://colliefarm.wordpress.com/2009/12/08/calculating-copper-in-a-sheeps-diet/#comment-6270</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I have been reading Colby&#039;s book, too. It seems that the sensible thing to do is offer free choice.  That won&#039;t drive you nuts trying to figure out how much to feed, and the sheep will eat just what they need.  And be sure to offer them dolomite as well, as Colby says she&#039;s never seen a case of copper toxicity if they had the dolomite offered as well.  The soils in Australia where Colby lives may have very different deficiencies from the soil where you live, so a mix appropriate for there could be bad news for you.  If you insist on trying to figure it out and allowing them no choice, how about having their copper levels tested]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have been reading Colby&#8217;s book, too. It seems that the sensible thing to do is offer free choice.  That won&#8217;t drive you nuts trying to figure out how much to feed, and the sheep will eat just what they need.  And be sure to offer them dolomite as well, as Colby says she&#8217;s never seen a case of copper toxicity if they had the dolomite offered as well.  The soils in Australia where Colby lives may have very different deficiencies from the soil where you live, so a mix appropriate for there could be bad news for you.  If you insist on trying to figure it out and allowing them no choice, how about having their copper levels tested</p>
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