In early December, I reported how excited I was to finally have no limping sheep, to which I credit getting their mineral supplementation, and copper intake, sorted out. Late December, I started seeing some tender feet and slight lameness again, and attributed it to the fact that I had been experimenting with Sweetlix brand, offering it as a choice alongside the Purina Goat Mineral. So, I took away the Sweetlix and stuck to just Purina, which had the most copper to offer, and also the least amount of copper binders.
I waited another month, but in late January, was still seeing some lameness. I checked all their feet and did a little trimming. Most of them looked fairly decent, so the source of the foot pain wasn’t clear. But one thing I realized is that their intake of the Purina mineral had gone down, way down. I think I know why.
18 out of 18 Sheep Prefer Mineral Freshness…
When I was experimenting with a whole buffet of mineral choices last fall and winter, I was placing small amounts in little dishes inside their covered mineral feeders. Partly I had to, to fit all the choices in the feeders; but I was also carefully monitoring how much was consumed each day. When I settled on only feeding the Purina mineral plus kelp, and felt I understood how much they were eating, I was delighted at the prospect of leaving out larger quantities. It was easier only having to re-fill the feeder once a week.
Well, the new problem being: the Purina mineral has enough salt in it that it attracts moisture. Though the mineral feeders have good covers, I’m sure the sheep tend to hang out with their heads in the feeder enough that rain can still get in, a little. And, we just have damp air here. Though the mix didn’t block-up completely, it got gooey and dark-colored. And presumably not so tasty. So the sheep weren’t eating much.
…And Then They Don’t Limp
So, <sigh>, OK, back to filling two little bowls daily with just the right amount. I’ve been doing this for the last month. And yep, the sheep started eating it at the expected rate once again. And now, here at the end of February, I can say, the last couple of days, no limping is achieved again! Yeah!
Is It Surely the Copper?
There are still some variables in the equation that make it so I can’t say 100% for sure it’s the Purina mineral doing the trick, but I’m narrowing it down pretty close. I wasn’t sure how hay and grain might be playing into the equation. But: in December-January, they had only grass hay, and there was still limping. Two weeks ago, I switched hay crops, this grass is a little nicer than the stuff I was feeding earlier in the winter. But I don’t think they’ve eaten enough to account for the recent cease in limping. So I don’t think hay is solving the problem.
They ate grain (dry COB) during most of the month of October for flushing, and I’ve been graining them up since early February again in preparation for lambing. But, since there was no limping in early December, I’m guessing the grain intake that ended in October couldn’t take credit for that. So, I’m pretty firm in thinking it’s the copper.
Fat Makes “Flow”
While at the Cattlemen’s Winterschool in January, I took a class in livestock mineral supplementation. The instructor was a dairy nutrition scientist from Wolfkill, and the class was interesting. He talked about how they add fats to their mineral mixes to keep them from clumping in our wet climate, to retain their “flow.” He didn’t say what kind of fats they use at Wolfkill, but I did ask him about mineral oil. He said in the small quantities found in livestock supplementation it’s not an issue (at least in his opinion). And, considering our climate, adding some fat seems unavoidable, unless you don’t mind doling out measured quantities of supplements daily. I mind, though!
The Price you Pay
And, I also mind the price of the Purina supplement. It’s $.78 a pound with tax, and my sheep enjoy eating about a pound a day. That’s $285 a year: more than the gross profit of an entire lamb. Now, I’m glad to spend money on no limping sheep, and it’s also less foot medication expense, and hoof trimming labor for me. So I’ll do it if I have to.
But, it’s on my to-do list to call Wolfkill and investigate if they can mix me a less costly mix. And maybe with more fat in it too, so that I can leave out at least a week’s supply without it turning to goop. And, I still keep revisiting the reality that I (in my siutation only) probably only need to supplement with selenium, copper and plain salt (not all the other stuff), so maybe I can still just figure out my own homemade gig. Still thinking… But thrilled to have no limpers again, just in time for the start of grazing and lambing.
The Collie Farm Blog 
March 2, 2010 at 2:53 pm
Pat Coleby says they get enough salt in the kelp. And Donna Daly says the salt content prevents the animals from getting enough of the other minerals they need. Just 2 cents to add to the pile. =)
Doris
March 2, 2010 at 3:43 pm
Doris, I’m confused about Pat Coleby’s advice on salt. “The mix” of four ingredients is the same in all her books. But in one section in the sheep book, when she talks about serving minerals separately in a *six* bin arrangement, she does mention offering salt standalone there, along with ground limestone. She doesn’t elaborate on why, or talk about it again anywhere else in the book that I can find. It seems like an inconsistency in her advice, I’m hoping she’ll correct or clarify this in the next editions.
I believe that the primary reason commercial mixes contain it, and so much of it, is to attract the animals to eat it so they get they other things they need. This seems to be based on the assumption that they would otherwise not eat what they need; and I’m not sure that is a valid assmption. I think Pat Coleby is probably right, that they will naturally crave what they need, and therefor eat it appropriately if it’s available. And you’ve mentioned before that a large amount of salt in the mix is just annoying from the standpoint that you are paying a lot of money for salt! I’ll try to look up any research on min/max quantities of salt…
Michelle
March 2, 2010 at 5:09 pm
Ok, so I looked up some salt requirements and did the math on those. I found several scientific research sources that corroborate with NRC’s Nutrient Requirements of Sheep (my conversion to ounces in square brackets):
So! I didn’t know that salt could also *limit* animals’ consumption of mineral supps! Huh. I had always read that it *encouraged* them to eat their supplements. Anyway, here is the math, using my sheep as an example. They have settled on eating about a pound per day each of kelp and the Purina supplement.
The Purina supp is 45% salt, so 45% of 16 oz is 7.2 oz, divided by 18 sheep is 0.4 oz per head per day. Early pregnancy, my sheep were eating about 4.3 lbs of hay per day, so the Purina supp is giving them 0.58% salt in total diet.
Thorvin kelp is 9% salt, so 9% of 16 oz is 1.44oz, divided by 18 sheep is 0.08 oz per head per day. This gives them 0.115% of salt in total diet. The sheep would need to increase their intake to at least 3oz of kelp per day to meet the minimum requirements for salt, if Thorvin kelp was their sole source.
There are other variables too, like salt in the feed or water supply. I think given that salt is cheap and easy to offer, and lack of it could result in poor growth gains, that it may be worthwhile to always offer it in some form. If the animals are gorging on kelp just because they need more salt, that’s just as costly as them gorging on commercial supplements for the same reason. So this is another reason I like Pat Coleby’s six-bin arrangement idea, to let them eat to their level of craving on each thing separately.
Michelle
March 2, 2010 at 9:42 pm
I try to find minerals that contain vegetable oil rather than mineral oil. Well, I did, now I just mix my own. Even if small amounts don’t ‘hurt’, I’d still rather not use mineral oil.
Coleby says that when the dolomite (calcium/magnesium) gets wet it neutralizes the copper. So maybe the calcium/magnesium in the Purina minerals were neutralizing the copper by getting wet?
Coleby says that goats need salt to some extent, but a goat that is getting the proper amount of minerals will seldom touch salt. My goats will eat salt from the lick, but probably because I still don’t have the minerals/feed balanced quite right.
I don’t know if you mentioned this, but apparently when a goat is looking for potassium it will eat more salt, but what it wants is the potassium and not really the salt. I think salt is also associated with another mineral and a lack will cause them to eat more salt – I will have to look it up.
March 2, 2010 at 11:06 pm
Linda, I think I’d also be inclined to favor plant-based oils in the feed, compared to mineral oil. But, I think the best would be seed-based oils, which would most closely mimic what ruminants are made to digest. Corn oil though… I dunno if that could claim to be any better than petroleum-based products; I think I’m as leery of corn products as anything “unnatural” because we’ve bred corn to be pretty unnatural.
I didn’t spot that in PC’s sheep book, the discussion of things getting wet and changing their binding properties. It seems like it must be more complicated than that, because those mineral components in fresh grass would always be “wet”. 🙂 I think my problem is the sheep don’t want to eat the stuff at all if it’s wet, and I don’t blame them, it turns into a sticky goo, like old Christmas candy or something!
Michelle
March 5, 2010 at 3:58 am
The fresh grass and being wet is an interesting idea that I did wonder about myself. However, I think they aren’t ‘mixed’ in a wet medium together until the food is crushed. I don’t know but it sounds reasonable if plants and minerals work anywhere near like they do in mammals… the calcium goes in and out of cells separate from copper and other minerals – just a guess of course.
The caution to not get the mineral mix wet can be found about in the middle of page 36 of Natural Sheep Care by Pat Coleby… at least in my 2006 addition it is there.
August 19, 2015 at 4:30 am
Haven’t picked up Pat Colby’s book lately, but have attended some farm tours this summer. These were part of a small ruminant program sponsored by the Auburn Extension Service and the USDA Resource Conservation and Development. Attended the first one a couple of months ago, and visited a Registered Katahdin Farm. It was there that this “Shegogg Creek” mineral was discussed by other attendees that sheep owners were using although it contained a lot of copper.
Anyway, during the fourth tour (in two months), I discover the host is also the person distributing these same minerals in that area. Still not extremely interested, but the last speaker was a veterinarian who specializes in goats and sheep. His presentation was primarily about worm resistance, Anthelmintics, and certain forages that are natural wormers, like Serica Lespedeza. Towards the end, the questions about this mineral took over, and I became very interested then.
I will post the analysis below, but just to be clear, this is labeled Shegogg Creek Goat Mineral, and there is a huge warning at the bottom about the added copper and feeding to sheep at your own risk, so this is not marketed for sheep at all, and the company is not responsible if you do so.
My interest was piqued when the veterinarian made it known he had been monitoring two herds for a couple of years now that are using this mineral formula. He does fecals for these, and also doctors them when needed. In two years neither have wormed their sheep. There had been only two unexplained deaths during that time, and livers were sent to the lab, specifically to check for copper toxicity, but no toxicity found. There was also a couple of Auburn extension agents there, who raise sheep, and stated that they were using this mineral also. There were others who confirmed they were using them also, but just not as long.
If I remember correctly, these two farms were 40 and 60 acres in size, and (guessing) at least a minimum of 75-100 ewes based on just the ones I saw. Could be more, but they are larger than my small flock, and a really big risk if the copper as dangerous to sheep as most people believe. Cannot recall all the other specifics, but generally, good lambing rates and very few health problems
My thoughts went to Pat Colby’s recommendation of free choice copper and other sources (can’t remember where I read all of them) that reckons copper deficiency might be a bigger problem than copper toxicity for some producers. There has also been discussions where different form of copper ingested resulted in benefits in the rumen without the harmful absorption effects. This mix does use the copper sulfate. Never really learned chemistry, (Don’t know anything really about the suffixes or bases) so I can’t discuss this aspect.
Anyway, long story, but I bought some of this mineral mix, and have started using it. I plan to have the same veterinarian come to my farm and to start using him also. My local ones really don’t want to do sheep and he specializes in them and is surprisingly affordable too. This will also allow me to question the high copper mineral and find out if there are any negative results of those who have been using it a lot longer than me.
I still need to replenish my individual minerals though. I plan on keeping some separate minerals, dolomite, and occasionally kelp. Will not be offering anymore free choice copper though!
Here is the anaysis:
Shegogg Creek Goat Mineral
Calcium 12-15%
Phosphorus 4%
Potassium 0.3%
Magnesium 0.35%
COPPER 7500 ppm
Selenium 0.2 ppm
Vitamin A 15000 iu/lb
Vitamin D 7250 iu/lb
Vitamin E 20 iu/lb
Salt 22%
Sulfur 4.75%
Zinc 400 ppm
Iodine 40 ppm
Ingredients: Calcium Carbonate, sea salt, Dicalcium Phosphate, Processed plant by products, sulfur, COPPER SULFATE, Vegetable oil, vitamin a, d, and e supplements, organic iodine and zinc.
October 6, 2015 at 6:01 am
Joel, I meant to reply, but this got lost in my list! Thanks for sharing the label info, I’m going to add this to my spreadsheet. That *is* a lot of copper. I think Pat’s book claimed that dolomite “buffered” against copper toxicity, but she never really explained what she meant by that, from a chemistry standpoint.
I was just at the KHSI Expo in PA, and a veterinarian presented there on nutrition, and cited a case of copper deficiency at a farm, where they were losing sheep from it. So, it does seem to be a real phenom!
February 8, 2016 at 2:44 am
We make hay and I was interested in soil composition in my area as OSU has recently started recommending fertilization with selenium as a technique for increasing the content in hay instead of depending upon direct supplementation for livestock. I found this neat map USGS developed that shows averages of soil concentrations of elements across the US! This may help in the copper issue too.
http://tin.er.usgs.gov/geochem/doc/averages/se/usa.html
February 8, 2016 at 3:47 am
Thanks CAnderson!